Tony Ryall

By Kate Chapman of NZPA

Wellington, June 16 NZPA - State Services Minister Tony Ryall refused to define frontline services today, telling a select committee there was no point as New Zealanders already knew.

Along with National's cap on spending by most state departments, the switch to focusing on frontline services has been hailed as the way for the sector to deliver more with less money.

New Zealanders knew a doctor was a frontline staff member while administration was a back office role and people who dealt with customers were frontline while policy analysts were not, Mr Ryall said.

He has regularly touted moving public sector staff resources from the 'back office' to the 'frontline' as a way to increase productivity and save money.

Labour's state services spokesman Grant Robertson said National's policy was based on "pure spin" and "behind the smoke and mirrors the quality of public services is suffering".

Questioned today about how he defined frontline, Mr Ryall said he didn't, as it would cost time and money to officially define which were frontline workers in each government department and there was no need, because New Zealanders already knew.

"We don't go through and define what is frontline and what isn't...I look upon frontline people as those who are dealing with the public," he told Parliament's finance and expenditure select committee.

"New Zealanders know what frontline services are, I think it's quite obvious."

Greens co-leader Russel Norman said getting rid of back office administration jobs in the health sector would see doctors picking up admin work.

Mr Ryall said that was not happening.

"The people who run our hospitals are not going to make decisions of sacking people if it is going to cost productivity and improvement."

Questioned by Labour about the cut in the number of biosecurity customs officials, which would seem to be frontline services, Mr Ryall said there had been a decrease in the number of Japanese imported cars arriving in New Zealand.

"Keeping people as car inspectors when there are no cars to inspect is not good value," he said.

Political tempers flared when the debate about what frontline meant heated up.

Committee chairman Craig Foss asked for "a bit of courtesy".

"You may not like the answers, you may not like the questions, but that's what's here and we move on."

Labour's finance spokesman David Cunliffe said he would keep asking his question "until he got an answer".

The committee was told reviews for Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade, Department of Conservation, Te Puni Kokiri and Land Information New Zealand should be published in the next month or so.

The reviews, part of the Performance Improvement Framework, would be made public and were likely to include colour coded charts to show where agencies were working well and where they were not, State Services Commissioner, Iain Rennie said.

The framework may be extended to Crown entities.